I thought the first episode of Netflix's Jeffrey Dahmer thing really captured the sleazy and oppressive air of his shitty existence, but it was all downhill from there. Still, the American public owes that guy a debt that can never fully be repaid : ANYONE can feel superior to him because he's been turned into the ultimate bogeyman. The most depraved, most confused, or worse yet DULLEST person alive has someone to feel better than, Dahmer has been granted the title of sorriest sicko who ever lived and everyone else can smugly exclaim their purported virtue by contrast. Is Dahmer himself especially interesting? Not really. But the "bottom of the bottom of the bottom of the barrel" label that has been attached to him, and society's desperate need for a "worst of the worst" certainly is an interesting --- and frankly pathetic --- phenomenon to witness.
I also like when he can't help himself and starts getting excited ... "There's going to be people turning up in canyons, people shot in Salt Lake City." He's just thoroughly enjoying himself, and would live to ride again.
And his audacity to say that he can't begin to comprehend the real killer's mentality and motivations.
Bundy reminds me of something I read in David Sylvester's book of interviews with Francis Bacon—the final thing FB says in the book. FB says people are so attached to their egos that they'd prefer the torment of hell over total annihilation, and that even if FB went to hell he'd be sure of escaping somehow. Bundy's belief that he'll somehow charm his way out seems so genuine, at least during this interview.
By rights, given the number of cards he had left to play, Bundy could have pleaded his execution down to life in exchange for info on previous crimes. He misplayed his hand badly and Florida seized their chance. Polly Nelson's Defending the Devil is good on Bundy's legal strategy in his final years. I swear every observation from FB in those interviews is of the highest calibre. Best book in that style.
There's a veritable mountain of them, aside from the core canon, you might enjoy THE LAST MURDER which focuses on the Leach child murder. Ted's reticence is noticeable, but seems like he was always working his way towards this one for me. We still need a definitive book I feel, but then I'll always say that.
There's an amazing Ripper one with most of the same participants from the Netflix one, albeit they're twenty years younger. iirc Janet Suzman narrates it. If it's on YT I'll Guttervision it in a future post.
Agree on Dahmer, still havent seen monster and i doubt i ever will. I was always most interested serial killers that weren't media whores and/or were never caught. People like the iceman are just insufferable with their lies and ego. The only one on this front I still somewhat like is Mark Chopper Reed who isnt even a serial killer per say, and that's only really because I like his writing. On that note I have to stay that (discounting Bait) The Gates Of Janus by Brady is one of the blandest and most infuriatingly self serving, ego driven and dragging things I've ever read.
Had to google Chopper. Generally I have an aristo disdain for the dealings of the common criminal class. Hats off to Australia though, for more than her fair share of thoroughly depraved cases.
Someone in my immediate family actually knew Ted Bundy but I never learned any sordid details of their experiences with him til a family gathering about two years ago. All I'll say is boy was that guy a weirdo!
I said that a member of my immediate family interacted with Ted Bundy, but it was actually two members, my mother and my sister. Sometime in the 90s I was having a conversation with my mom and she referenced something about this and then realized she had to explain it to me, because I'd been kept in the dark about it for 20 years.
Back in 1974 or thereabouts my 8 year old younger sister played with a friend down the block whose mother was engaged to Bundy. This would have been the Kloepfer woman. During the course of this time period Bundy was starting to become a potential suspect in the murders, until it reached a point where my mom decided it wasn't a good idea to let Ted take the girls roller skating/ice skating (there's some discrepancy about this) and she ran over to the house to get her out of there. So I hear this story and I'm kind of stunned. Never wound up discussing it with my sister because we were never super close, and I figured if she ever wanted to broach the subject with me she could do that whenever she felt like it.
Moving ahead to two years (or was it one?) year ago and I'm at a family gathering at my sister's, everyone's drinking, and the subject finally comes up and my sister divulges a few things. For one, she didn't sense anything overtly creepy about Bundy at the time, only in retrospect. Apparently something Ted would do from time to time is take a certain type of flower (I forget which) and with his thumbs pop the petalled part off the stem while saying "Tiny little baby with its head popped off." I can remember kids at school doing something similar.
Much later the Kloepfer girl told my sister, for they had kept in touch, that Bundy and her mother, his fiancee, would sometimes engage in S&M play. One time Ted tied her to the bed, then set some kind of kindling to smoldering within the bedroom (was there a fireplace in there? Don't know.) Then Ted left the room and locked the door as it filled up with smoke. After a while Mrs. Kloepfer began coughing and choking to the point where she thought she might not make it. But Ted eventually came back and doused it and untied her.
And finally when my mom was convinced by a friend that maybe it wouldn't be a good idea for Ted to take my sister and her friend skating, she called the Kloepfer house first and demanded that sis come home because she didn't feel comfortable with her being with Ted. At some point she heard Ted in the background say "Geez, I thought it was innocent until proven guilty!" Then eventually Mom just ran down the block to bring sis home, which was difficult for her to do as she'd just abortion surgery. (This was another revelation for me as I had no idea my mother ever even had an abortion after me and my sister were born. Fifty year old secret! Those gals really knew how to keep me out of the loop!) So she went and grabbed my sister and could see Ted pacing about on the porch fuming.
The other day I actually got to discussing this again with Mom and she recommended I watch the documentary, Ted Bundy: Falling for a Killer because the Kloepfers are featured in it. I'm going to try and rent it tomorrow. Any opinions on it?
That's an amazing posting Tad, thanks. As one who's witnessed family get-togethers lead to an outpouring of alcohol-fuelled revelations I can picture the scene with some clarity. So many great details and if you'll forgive me, I think the citing of the abortion as the reason your mother had difficulty running to the rescue tops the lot. I haven't seen Falling For A Killer, but now it's top of my list, I see trailblazing feminist 'scholar' Jane Caputi (author of The Age of Sex Crime) is even in it ... what's not to love?! S&M, skating, smoke inhalation & tiny little babies with their heads popped off. Top comment, thank you!
I thought the first episode of Netflix's Jeffrey Dahmer thing really captured the sleazy and oppressive air of his shitty existence, but it was all downhill from there. Still, the American public owes that guy a debt that can never fully be repaid : ANYONE can feel superior to him because he's been turned into the ultimate bogeyman. The most depraved, most confused, or worse yet DULLEST person alive has someone to feel better than, Dahmer has been granted the title of sorriest sicko who ever lived and everyone else can smugly exclaim their purported virtue by contrast. Is Dahmer himself especially interesting? Not really. But the "bottom of the bottom of the bottom of the barrel" label that has been attached to him, and society's desperate need for a "worst of the worst" certainly is an interesting --- and frankly pathetic --- phenomenon to witness.
Always compelling to see someone exercise their skill so well, and charming liars don’t come much better than Ted Bundy.
I also like when he can't help himself and starts getting excited ... "There's going to be people turning up in canyons, people shot in Salt Lake City." He's just thoroughly enjoying himself, and would live to ride again.
And his audacity to say that he can't begin to comprehend the real killer's mentality and motivations.
Bundy reminds me of something I read in David Sylvester's book of interviews with Francis Bacon—the final thing FB says in the book. FB says people are so attached to their egos that they'd prefer the torment of hell over total annihilation, and that even if FB went to hell he'd be sure of escaping somehow. Bundy's belief that he'll somehow charm his way out seems so genuine, at least during this interview.
By rights, given the number of cards he had left to play, Bundy could have pleaded his execution down to life in exchange for info on previous crimes. He misplayed his hand badly and Florida seized their chance. Polly Nelson's Defending the Devil is good on Bundy's legal strategy in his final years. I swear every observation from FB in those interviews is of the highest calibre. Best book in that style.
Thanks for the book recommendation on Bundy! I re-watch a lot of the YouTube content and was browsing online for books just then.
There's a veritable mountain of them, aside from the core canon, you might enjoy THE LAST MURDER which focuses on the Leach child murder. Ted's reticence is noticeable, but seems like he was always working his way towards this one for me. We still need a definitive book I feel, but then I'll always say that.
Added to 'the list'. Thanks, Philip!
“the ripper” was also disappointing. whole lot of cops going “huh, maybe we SHOULD HAVE cared huh?”
I'd have to watch it again (and that isn't going to happen) to remind me just how pandering that abomination was.
do you think there’s ever gonna be a good documentary made on any of these characters?
There's an amazing Ripper one with most of the same participants from the Netflix one, albeit they're twenty years younger. iirc Janet Suzman narrates it. If it's on YT I'll Guttervision it in a future post.
Agree on Dahmer, still havent seen monster and i doubt i ever will. I was always most interested serial killers that weren't media whores and/or were never caught. People like the iceman are just insufferable with their lies and ego. The only one on this front I still somewhat like is Mark Chopper Reed who isnt even a serial killer per say, and that's only really because I like his writing. On that note I have to stay that (discounting Bait) The Gates Of Janus by Brady is one of the blandest and most infuriatingly self serving, ego driven and dragging things I've ever read.
Looking forward to more of this in the future.
Had to google Chopper. Generally I have an aristo disdain for the dealings of the common criminal class. Hats off to Australia though, for more than her fair share of thoroughly depraved cases.
Someone in my immediate family actually knew Ted Bundy but I never learned any sordid details of their experiences with him til a family gathering about two years ago. All I'll say is boy was that guy a weirdo!
Care to elaborate? You're amongst friends!
Just saw your reply. Hold on I'll tell the tale once I'm home.
I said that a member of my immediate family interacted with Ted Bundy, but it was actually two members, my mother and my sister. Sometime in the 90s I was having a conversation with my mom and she referenced something about this and then realized she had to explain it to me, because I'd been kept in the dark about it for 20 years.
Back in 1974 or thereabouts my 8 year old younger sister played with a friend down the block whose mother was engaged to Bundy. This would have been the Kloepfer woman. During the course of this time period Bundy was starting to become a potential suspect in the murders, until it reached a point where my mom decided it wasn't a good idea to let Ted take the girls roller skating/ice skating (there's some discrepancy about this) and she ran over to the house to get her out of there. So I hear this story and I'm kind of stunned. Never wound up discussing it with my sister because we were never super close, and I figured if she ever wanted to broach the subject with me she could do that whenever she felt like it.
Moving ahead to two years (or was it one?) year ago and I'm at a family gathering at my sister's, everyone's drinking, and the subject finally comes up and my sister divulges a few things. For one, she didn't sense anything overtly creepy about Bundy at the time, only in retrospect. Apparently something Ted would do from time to time is take a certain type of flower (I forget which) and with his thumbs pop the petalled part off the stem while saying "Tiny little baby with its head popped off." I can remember kids at school doing something similar.
Much later the Kloepfer girl told my sister, for they had kept in touch, that Bundy and her mother, his fiancee, would sometimes engage in S&M play. One time Ted tied her to the bed, then set some kind of kindling to smoldering within the bedroom (was there a fireplace in there? Don't know.) Then Ted left the room and locked the door as it filled up with smoke. After a while Mrs. Kloepfer began coughing and choking to the point where she thought she might not make it. But Ted eventually came back and doused it and untied her.
And finally when my mom was convinced by a friend that maybe it wouldn't be a good idea for Ted to take my sister and her friend skating, she called the Kloepfer house first and demanded that sis come home because she didn't feel comfortable with her being with Ted. At some point she heard Ted in the background say "Geez, I thought it was innocent until proven guilty!" Then eventually Mom just ran down the block to bring sis home, which was difficult for her to do as she'd just abortion surgery. (This was another revelation for me as I had no idea my mother ever even had an abortion after me and my sister were born. Fifty year old secret! Those gals really knew how to keep me out of the loop!) So she went and grabbed my sister and could see Ted pacing about on the porch fuming.
The other day I actually got to discussing this again with Mom and she recommended I watch the documentary, Ted Bundy: Falling for a Killer because the Kloepfers are featured in it. I'm going to try and rent it tomorrow. Any opinions on it?
Anyway that's my Ted Bundy story.
That's an amazing posting Tad, thanks. As one who's witnessed family get-togethers lead to an outpouring of alcohol-fuelled revelations I can picture the scene with some clarity. So many great details and if you'll forgive me, I think the citing of the abortion as the reason your mother had difficulty running to the rescue tops the lot. I haven't seen Falling For A Killer, but now it's top of my list, I see trailblazing feminist 'scholar' Jane Caputi (author of The Age of Sex Crime) is even in it ... what's not to love?! S&M, skating, smoke inhalation & tiny little babies with their heads popped off. Top comment, thank you!
Just left Scarecrow Video and unfortunately they didn't have Falling for a Killer so will have to look elsewhere
Is there even a physical release? It's streaming on Amazon Prime.